demo flood

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Angus_Thermopyle
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demo flood

Post by Angus_Thermopyle »

Yesterday I started watching 2002-demos for nominating. There is only one week left, and this day I wanted to check the nightmare cat. This seems even harder than speed (you can't be wrong to nominate 10 demos from Sedlo ;)) or max.

But this morning there are 50 :o new demos in incoming. What is happening here?! This ruines my plans...
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Re: demo flood

Post by Lucas Pope »

these new demos are part of a plan by several people to wipe xit vono's name from the demo database. aside from the social train wreck they symbolize, they're probably not too exciting to watch.
Last edited by Lucas Pope on 23.02.2003 08:29, edited 1 time in total.
xit-vono
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Re: demo flood

Post by xit-vono »

Only demos uploaded in 2002 are eligible for this years cyber awards so don't worry about these new demos.
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Andy Johnsen
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Re: demo flood

Post by Andy Johnsen »

L. Poop: Funny you should bring social train wreck into this. Consider us the ones cleaning up the debris from it  :-*
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Re: demo flood

Post by The_Fish »

what is a "social train wreck"?
xit-vono
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Re: demo flood

Post by xit-vono »

Well I see you're trying to beat all my demos, but you oughta check the tables first.  m205n125 and mm06-105 are not records, and should be removed from incoming.
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BahdKo (Guest)
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »

Well I see you're trying to beat all my demos
Incorrect.

If they wanted *all* of your demos gone, they would be gone. There is no case of "trying" to do anything here.

Do you doubt for a minute that the real doomgods couldn't overrun virtually everything you've uploaded, assuming they didn't die from bordom on those longest tysons? I don't know what it will take for you to come down off your high horse; the reality is that you are similar in skill to me, but you have a lot more free time than I do (and I honestly suck compared to those guys). Also, it's annoying that you've convinced so many of these somewhat new people that you're something more through the sheer bulk of your uploads and the "I'm God" perspective of your forum posts, textfiles, and IRC exchanges.

--BahdKo
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Re: demo flood

Post by Opulent »

If anyone actually bothered to read my newdoom interview, you'd see Xit's name alongside the very best players... and IMO rightfully so.
His attitude could use some improvement, but that is his choice to alienate himself in such a small group of people.
It is obvious that deep-down he knows that he is not at the same level as, say Henning, as very evidenced by his lack of contest demos or Iwad records.
He is an excellent all-around player with a particular skill in a special category: Tyson and nightmare.
You could say the same thing about Bahdko: She is an excellent all-around player with a particular skill in a special category: Deathmatch.
Neither of them could beat Anders. period.  
I, personally, couldn't beat any of them... at any category; but that is irrelevant.

let's at least TRY to all get along...  or at least just let the demos and the points tables speak for themselves.:-/
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Re: demo flood

Post by Andy Johnsen »

I'm all for getting along Doug, and soap operas usually bore me (unless its DOOL, eh df? =P) Letting demos speak for themselves seems like a good idea, hench the recent batch of uploads. I'll admitt I despise Vono's attitude in general (and I'm not alone obviously), but that topic is old, I don't find the skill level of a player relevant to this at all either, its about attitude problems as bahdko points out...no more no less.

Lets leave this thread and go record something.

Read through the interview btw, cool read :)
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Re: demo flood

Post by emailking »

I have been following Compet-N pretty religiously since 1998. In that time, Sedlo, Stx-Vile, and Vono are by far the best players I've seen. This flood of demos really "speaks" nothing to me, other than skilled players can rack up a bunch of demos over some period of time and upload them all at once to to try and make a point. Most of these I'm sure Xit can recover if/when he wants to. I'll be impressed when somebody else does t4m6, or ty07, or t4m1 in under an hour. Until then, this really does appear to be a rather pathetic attempt to put down a great player whose only sin appears to be speaking the truth.
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »

I have been following Compet-N pretty religiously since 1998. In that time, Sedlo, Stx-Vile, and Vono are by far the best players I've seen.
This kills me. In your list, you skip Henning, Vince, Adam Hegyi, Adam Williamson, Ocelot, Anders .. many more .... to list xit vono as one of the best. You must not be watching the right demos, man.

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Andy Johnsen
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Re: demo flood

Post by Andy Johnsen »

Emailking my butt. I'm not buying you for a sec..sorry. More than likely someone we know under a different nick.

If not I find it sad seeing some jackass calling it pathetic to upload demos. Compet-N stands for competition if you didn't figure it out by now. What demos a player choose to go after and how we decide to go about uploads have been pretty much irrelevant in the past.

I thought I'd leave retarded skill discussions out of this, but as you wish. Putting vono on the same level as stx-vile and sedlic is ludicrous from the perspective of anyone with a clue about doom demo recording. Show me something to back up your assessment with before you start to rant about player skills please, such as demos of your own. Watching demos will tell you jack in the end if you don't know what the workload is, or notice subtle stuff someone not actively playing himselfe can't pick up on. I've spent a few 1000 hours playing this game and have done stuff for most if not all compet-N cats for years to back up my own statements. What vono's skill level is (or in this case is not) have nothing to do with anything. So he can't move his mouse in the same fancy patheren as someone who played the _game_ more than him, so what? who gives a fuck? This is about a sad nerd with attitude problems who have caused more discussion and argument in a otherwise friendly community than anyone else during the years compet-N's been around. He have brought the hostile attitude of a good portion of players upon himselfe. If we are gonna go into childish details, Vono tried actively for a long time to get rid of as many of my records as possible because I banned him from a chatroom with good reasons. I don't need any reason to defend my records or do whatever task I feel like on CN for whatever reason anyway, and if anyones about to pass judgement w/o having the proper insight I'm consistently gonna tell them to fuck off.

This "flood of demos" was not supposed to speak shit to you, or Lucas Poop or any other quick to judge bystander looking to get some flamewar going on these forums. So take your holier-than-thou attitudes and expert opinions and get the fuck out of our face for uploading demos. Now if every forum-cockroach-nerd can shut up and go jack off instead we can leave this thread dead.
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Re: flamewar

Post by Waldon »

"jackass, sad nerd, fuck off,
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Re: demo flood

Post by Erik_A »

More upset feelings => more beaten records => better compet-n quality. So, ladies and gentlemen, go ahead with the petty bickering, something good is bound to come out of it all.
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Re: demo flood

Post by emailking »

"This kills me. In your list, you skip Henning, Vince, Adam Hegyi, Adam Williamson, Ocelot, Anders .. many more .... to list xit vono as one of the best. You must not be watching the right demos, man."

I considered including Henning. I have watched most of the non-respawn demos (just don't find them as interesting) for the Iwads and select demos for the Pwads.  Clearly everyone you mentioned has come up with some rather amazing stuff. I am just more impressed by what I've seen from Sedlo, Vono, and Stx-Vile. Sorry we don't agree. I don't think I can really give a justification for my opinion. I'm fine with others disagreeing.

"Emailking my butt. I'm not buying you for a sec..sorry. More than likely someone we know under a different nick."

Yeah, I figured you might think that. I have posted before in a context where it wouldn't make sense to be an imposter. Guess I can't prove it though.

"If not I find it sad seeing some jackass calling it pathetic to upload demos."

That's not what I said.

"Show me something to back up your assessment with before you start to rant about player skills please, such as demos of your own."

It's not a personal attack. It was a statement of opinion which was meant whom I have seen take far too much abuse as far as these boards go. You might not think that my opinion means anything. That's fine with me. I stay out of communication with this community because I don't have much to contribute. It's just fun to watch. Your demos are fun to watch too. I just wish you wouldn't do it in this manner and felt I needed to express that.

"Watching demos will tell you jack in the end if you don't know what the workload is, or notice subtle stuff someone not actively playing himselfe can't pick up on."

I don't doubt for a second that that is true. But you should be consistent with this attitude. Expressions like "woohoo, another point" and "I hope nobody is stupid enough to watch this crap" don't do justice to all the time and effort the previous record holder put in.

"This is about a sad nerd with attitude problems who have caused more discussion and argument in a otherwise friendly community than anyone else during the years compet-N's been around."

Well, that same "sad nerd" has done the undone more than anyone else I have seen. That says something, to me at least.

"I don't need any reason to defend my records or do whatever task I feel like on CN for whatever reason anyway, and if anyones about to pass judgement w/o having the proper insight I'm consistently gonna tell them to fuck off."

Ok. You can do that. I won't listen to such a petty dismissal though.

"This "flood of demos" was not supposed to speak shit to you, or Lucas Poop or any other quick to judge bystander looking to get some flamewar going on these forums. So take your holier-than-thou attitudes and expert opinions and get the fuck out of our face for uploading demos. Now if every forum-cockroach-nerd can shut up and go jack off instead we can leave this thread dead. "

Whoa. Take some of your own advice man.

I'm going to take it too though. I'm not going to respond to this again, just because I'd rather not be in an argument. Sorry if I upset you.
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Re: demo flood

Post by myk »

More upset feelings => more beaten records => better compet-n quality. So, ladies and gentlemen, go ahead with the petty bickering, something good is bound to come out of it all.
Heh. After I saw this thread yesterday, I came back today but to say something like this. Dislikes, differences and personal chemical incompatibilites between the players aside I see all the activity as VERY good. I mean, for a long time Vono has been "spamming" Compet-n with LMPs, some of which are exceptional (Tysons no one did before, some runs, etc.) and some of which aren't that great, but they are all quite valid entries and contributions to what this is all about; a DOOM demos competition site. As for the flood of replies that eventually came; awesome. Many people had their records taken and you could expect (and even desire) to see a comeback. Even Xit can be proud that his demos are getting attention and that he has an opportunity to improve them even more. It's not like any entries disappear or become invalid when replaced by newer ones, they are there to be challenged. And that is what is happening!

Now let's see if I can add something to the flood with my meager (hopefully improving) skills...
Last edited by myk on 25.02.2003 00:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »

[quote]

I considered including Henning. I have watched most of the non-respawn demos (just don't find them as interesting) for the Iwads and select demos for the Pwads.
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Re: demo flood

Post by Erik_Alm »

He said that he watched most iwad runs except respawn, so he probably saw the one of those you mentioned that are iwad stuff. Every person has the right to his/her own opinion.
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Re: demo flood

Post by AdamW »

What stuff of Vono's was actually undone before, btw? Discounting TNT / PWAD stuff that was undone because it's boring as shit, not because it's hard? T2M8, T4M6...what else?
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ranx yer arse
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Re: demo flood

Post by ranx yer arse »

hey sorry to butt in, but me am bored

=random stuff=

johnso: shut the feck up and go record -either ty09 -or do t3m6 under 6 mins, long time been waiting for it, thanks ;)
cant seem to catch ya on #nm either btw

cumpetn has always been more about patience than raw skillz,
plus EVERY major player ive seen since 98 was a point harvester in first place, so give xit another year oki? none of his demos are really memorable in my book, altho a few of'em are worth checking out..
I dare to say if the ty07 sub 10mins (which I dont like that much I reckon) would have had another name on the txt everyone would have said its the best shite out there,
I also like the arakna punch outs on the various ty15/17 etc, but you may not like them..
i dunt like xits mousing that much, but I found him to be very knowledgeable when it comes down to the world of lmps,
plus anyone being smart enouff to use a tool like novert et al gets a special bonus in my book.. (hmm, sorry, I missed the point I guess, I wish I was on IRC when his badass im better than you attitude showed up ;)

oh, of course hegyi (and maybe kai uwe) is the exception to that rule (harvester) but I never thought the admin was a human either ;)

btw, am i the only one who'd like to see a couple fights between vile and andy or andy and henner or henner and vile, etc? (throw in some ossen if you wanna too - or sedlo going max! etc)

fish: if yer reading, thx for mm2-25 havent seen it yet, i do like ssg action in general, tho its the map i like (very complex but tight in a way) plus the cyb is well placed IMO

Id take off willie from bahds list but thats just me ;)
nice to see bahd back btw, liked her txtfile
radegs ty19 is even sweeter.. :P

and main reason im writing: where can i find dat fecking opulento innerview!? (cant connect to the sda atm)

I agree w/ pope that some demos aint worth checking, like p1m3 or the t4m2.. and henner may not be the most skilled player in CN history but he's the one with the most brilliant movements out there, so make sure you vote for his demos in the "artistical" section of cyber, okey?!

btw, for the two of you who are still reading, ive found this the most interesting (which doesnt mean much by itself) thread in a long time, 100 times better than  the usual one liners..


go doom!


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Altima
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Ergh...

Post by Altima »

Roight...I knew this was gonna start back up when I managed to see incoming for the 2 minutes I was able to connect on Sunday.

Everyone is gifted in some category. Vono is good with Tyson. Anders is good with Max. Vile is good with Max/Nightmare/NM100S. Henning specializes in 30nm's and Nightmare in general. Sedlo's awesome with UV-speed. Ryback is -fast and Max.

Vono is simply doing some things that no one else would do.

I'm not taking either side, just stating what I see.

Vono may not have the highest quality in demos, but he's at least able to contribute. Whether it is "crap" or not shouldn't matter, at least he is able to contribute. Just like my -respawn demos, at least I'm able to contribute, even though no one really cares for -respawn outside of me as it is an "uninteresting" category.

And this shouldn't be about "point harvesting" at all. So what if someone spams incoming with 300-billion new demos in .04 seconds? It's new demos, new records, new material to watch, new strategies to use and learn, new routes. It shouldn't really matter.

Yeah, Vono likes to do some demos for these "points". Now me, I personally don't care. If a map is fun to do in a certain style, then I'll attempt it.

This is simply my opinion, and I have to cut it short unfortunately, because the bell rang for the next class.
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Re: demo flood

Post by Angus_Thermopyle »

Views from a fan (who thought half a year ago, after playing Doom for years, lv30 is not possible in UV and skill 5 was a terrible joke from id):

In the last few days I spent 20 hours or so with watching demos especially for nominating. E. g. I have seen only a handful coop demos yet, so I had to put some effort in it, and it's a very interesting cat with lots of great demos (I watched cn30-028 over ten times and laughed ;D).

Despite that I'm relatively new to Doom speedrunning. I watch almost every new demo and have seen almost every actual record in the last five months (from pwads also, I know I'm mad). I do it for fun. It's a great pleasure and I must thank everyone for this great experience.

I don't know anything about attitudes or personalities. But I know the demos.
And after speedrunning for Mirra (will there be any updates, Xit?) or the dwango contest (actually faster than Oyvind and Altima, YESSS ;D), I can imagine the hard work, the patience and the talents which are needed to do a new record. And most of these records are remarkable for a non-doomgod like me. The person who recorded the demo is secondary at the moment when I'm watching it (generally I read the textfile after that), but in the meantime I'm able to distinguish between Adam Hegyi's and stx-vile's style, between Xit Vono's and Sedlo's. And I like most of their demos. (And from all the others I have not mentioned.)

How to compare ty292426 with pl12-006? Is there a difference in quality? Is there an objective definition what a 'good' demo is? I don't think so. Speedrunning is like music or literature. A very subjective thing. stx-vile says his an26-358 is ugly, but I nominate it for Cybers.

Playing Doom at that high level is ART. That is the reason why I visit Compet-N almost every day.

(Btw, in the meantime I did lv30 in UV.)
Last edited by Angus_Thermopyle on 25.02.2003 22:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: demo flood

Post by The_Fish »

Ranxeron: sup, didn't even know you were claud_  ;D
Yeah, I figured as much you liked the map. I like it too. Lame ending tho...Bad Luck=way too much

Erik: I agree! BTW, your maps suck and you cannot beat my demos!  :P

Av09-407 is NOT a great demo. Ask Henna, please....he will tell you himself.  ;)
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BahdKo (Guest)
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »


How to compare ty292426 with pl12-006? Is there a difference in quality? Is there an objective definition what a 'good' demo is? I don't think so. Speedrunning is like music or literature. A very subjective thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're saying "I watch demos for the television-like value; a demo's value is its entertainment value only". If thats true, we've found the source of our disagreement - - we have entirely different reasons for watching.

When comparing two demos of the calibers you listed above, I argue that it is absolutely *not* like music or literature, nor subjective. There are concrete, measureable skill and innovation differences between those classes of demos.

The case could be made for artistic differences between demos of similar, high caliber (imo Adam Hegyi's e2m5-027 and Ocelot's nm02-045 would be a demo pair to consider). But not just everything and anything works like that.

--BahdKo
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Re: demo flood

Post by Angus_Thermopyle »

Bahdko:
Yes, I do watch demos for entertaining. It entertains me more than most of the crap on television (Compet-N: 95% high quality, TV: 95% shit). But I don't understand your main reason for watching. What is it? Doom is a game, what else than just for fun can it be?
Could it be a scientific approach? You speak from "concrete, measureable skill and innovation differences". Interesting! How do you measure demos? Which values are there?
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Re: demo flood

Post by myk »

Heh, I doubt it's scientific (that would be more like cph's perspective when testing prboom's demo compatibility capabilities.) From what I see she means a sport-like point of view. The truth is that why we watch demos is a purely personal matter... I consider watching LMPs quite entertaining per se... and if I didn't, I would most likely be doing something else with the time I allotted to watching them. Enjoying the demos, of course, takes nothing away from being observant and noting styles, skills, differences, and so on, which then influence my own playing in one way or another.

The main standard for how good a demo is, obviously, the recording time. Aside from that you may be able to note particular things certain players excel at, like movement precision, aim, thing awareness, endurance, mastery of certain tricks or jumps, knowledge of monster behavior, and so on. And I'm sure an observant person can point out many of these pros (and the cons where these fail) but I doubt we'd eventually agree in all respects on such generic things as "who is better than who." And it doesn't matter much either. I mean, there'd be nothing wrong with someone writing an essay comparing Compet-n players and their styles and drawing certain conclusions about style and skill, but that isn't the focus of this activity, in my opinion. Instead, and mainly, we have fun competing and observing recordings.
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »

But I don't understand your main reason for watching. What is it? Doom is a game, what else than just for fun can it be?
Could it be a scientific approach? You speak from "concrete, measureable skill and innovation differences". Interesting! How do you measure demos? Which values are there?
For me, its exiting to watch players do highly skillful things, and i'm partial to good movement demos since movement is my own weak point. I can still remember the very first time a demo of someone who was decent (xoleras map1 deathmatch) fired up on my computer screen, and how for a good while after that I would watch those xoleras demos each day before going and playing, for inspiration to improve :)

Concrete measurable skill differences in sp, here is what I mean:

* Player movement at high speed being precise. That is to say,
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Re: demo flood

Post by AdamW »

I note your categories are heavily biased towards short, relatively easy, optimisable runs, Bahd. This may be why you have the judgements about player skill that you do.

It's easy to see why you don't like Vono's demos if you truly just measure them against the above measures, because the runs Vono does can't be very well measured by these. In a 20-minute tyson run where the emphasis is on extremely efficient punching and survival, a total of say twenty seconds lost to suboptimal movement and silly fuckups is insignificant.

You modify your technique according to the run you're making. In the current contest, for instance, there are situations where I'd quit if I make a movement error of ten units. If I was running, say, PP31 - a very tough, five minute long pacifist run - and I made an error that cost five seconds after three minutes, I'm not going to quit, and if I happen to finish the run on that attempt, you'll look at it according to your categories and say it "sucks". That's just stupid.

Vono's demos aren't valuable for extremely good movement, sure. But that's not the only measure of a good demo. I like Vono's demos for his extremely good tyson technique - till Vono came along, no-one had any idea how to punch a mancubus properly. (I still can't do it, which is why I admire his demos). Sure his movement isn't on a level with Sedlo's, but so what? You cut your cloth according to your means, and Vono recognises his strengths and weaknesses and plays appropriate runs. This doesn't make them crap or worthless.
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Re: demo flood

Post by AdamW »

Oh, and the MAP24 jump is controversial :). AdamH insists on crediting it to me, but I think it should be joint credit.

Basically, we were discussing rocket jumps. A rocket jump across that gap was known, and we'd both realised it shouldn't be possible, because it's beyond the distance a rocket jump should be able to manage there. So we were looking at why it did work, and just playing around with different things there. I don't have the log any more, but I think AdamH first suggested that there might be something odd about the wall. I was the first to actually make the jump across unassisted by rockets (I did it from a savegame at first, then Adam_H replicated it, then I recorded lv24trik), but I reckon it was a joint effort :). It's not the hardest trick around, actually - if you try for half an hour or so you should be able to get it reasonably consistently.
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Re: demo flood

Post by The_Fish »

I note your categories are heavily biased towards short, relatively easy, optimisable runs, Bahd. This may be why you have the judgements about player skill that you do.
Some excellent points, Adam.
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »

I note your categories are heavily biased towards short, relatively easy, optimisable runs, Bahd. This may be why you have the judgements about player skill that you do.

etc
That's something of an overgeneralization, so I think i'll talk a little more here ..
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BahdKo (Guest)
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Re: demo flood

Post by BahdKo (Guest) »

oops, since I'm not actually registered on here, it's not letting me go back and edit my post. The intended version of my post had a sentance that was worded differently, but didn't make it up (cgi webforms are fun).

I mean to say: I agree completely that skillful pacifist is definately very different from my descriptions in my last post, and that skillful movement isn't as critical for Tyson as in other cats.
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Re: demo flood

Post by xit-vono »

Hi angus, yeah I just checked my mirra mailbox and I noticed you had some stuff in there so I promise you there will be an update in the next few days.
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Re: demo flood

Post by ranx dot com »

[more random thoughts]

~i thought the current ty11 rec was quite nice (moreso when you watch it with a good midi and load the orange udoom sky)
i cant really say how "hard" it is as I never tried it myself, but neither can you ;)

~"skill" and "pacifist" cant be used in the same context, as they create a contradiction in terms!!

(this makes more sense in german btw)

~I like to watch skilled performances, but prefer demos were the emphasis is actually put on "style".. try to compare your usual hegyi/skogsto stuff to some sedlic 99 shite (dobardan marijo btw ;)

~willie hit most of the points in his post, I disagree with the mancubus bit tho (replace in with arkatron and im fine)

speaking of arkas..
*the first(?) demo to show a good punchout was seen in AVM's DHT-tyson exam, d2 map17 i think
*DL's ones in the '97 ty07 were more "corner-knocking" stylee (impressive nevertheless)
*when the TAS site went online on early 99 you could appreciate a lovely one in esko's ty15-648, even somemore in sedlo's ty07-3xx, and then you got the regular ty07 by vono. interesting thing all three players disable vertical mouse movement (hope that rings a bell)



oh yeah, not implicitly aimed at anyone this post, just beating a dead horse instead of doing some work.. even did some dishes before cus I cant be arsed to work, think ill go ircing a bit now.. seeyaaaaaaa!!!











:-*
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Re: demo flood

Post by xit-vono »

well bahdko and anders, you really need to chill out or something.  I take compet-n very seriously and I can be a rude person sometimes so I will say things that will make you think I'm an asshole.  But I never have held a grudge against any player, even the 2 of you.  You say that you have had me banned from #nightmare because the stuff I have said here, in txt files or in other places sickened you, and I think it is reasonable to be sickened by some of those things I said.  But also I must say you 2 have said things equally rude for example calling emailking names because he thinks I am one of the 3 best players of all time.  I don't agree with him there either because I know that Hegyi, Anders, Henning, Stx-vile and Vince for example are all at least as good as me if not better but that's not a good reason to say some of the things you said.  So if you continue trying to convince people that I am an asshole remember that you may just convince people that you are being an asshole.
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Re: demo flood

Post by Radeg »

Xit, xit, xit, as you've just proved you will never get any better...btw. you have never had problems with self-confidence, have you?? Man, saying " I know that Hegyi, Anders, Henning, Stx-vile and Vince for example are all at least as good as me if not better " is just driving me crazy. As good as you!!! Haha!! It's obvoius that you will never reach their level of skill, no matter what you think. You probably think if beat some fucking 3-years-old-pwad-first-exit-demo by Vincet, you are as good as him...I tell you what everyone knows (except of you it seems), Vincent or anyone you mentioned could beat any your demo anytime, but they just don't bother!!! Understand it at last!
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Re: demo flood

Post by AdamW »

ranx: pacifist? no skill?

...

talk to me when you have your pp31 ready.

as for the punching: I don't rate demonlord's style at all. it's slow and boring as fuck (stand round a corner, make an attempt to punch, fail 9/10 times, run away and try again...*yawn*). that's not knowing how to punch the tricky enemies, it's working around *not* knowing how to do it. and TAS is completely different, because if you miss a punch, then hey - load at that point again and don't miss it. anyone at all could do ty07-3xx with TAS, it'd just take some people longer than others. the impressive thing is being able to do it fast and with reliable punching skills in a genuine run, anyone who can do that gets my respect.
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Andy Johnsen
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Re: demo flood

Post by Andy Johnsen »

(gonna have to make two posts in a row here since I got a "message too long" error when posting the orignal one)

Xit, I'll take your advice and chill. My last post didn't serve its purpose of getting the thread deleted anyway. Posting when you are pissed to the degree of wanting to wring someones neck is rarely a good idea either.

I'm not sure how to interpret your post. Some of it reads to me like if you realize why theres a good handfull of people holding a grudge against you. If that is the case then this is the first incident where I see you trying to do something about it. I recall asking you this way back too when people first started reacting negatively towards you on irc in response to some of the stuff you said. You didn't seem interested in straighten stuff out at all back then, and it all escalated into an ugly chan split which I personally hold you and myselfe indirectly responsible for.

Your right when you say throwing shit have gone two ways. Whenver your nick comes up on irc theres usually a remark comming from someone (myselfe included) leading to a discussion of sorts, or a joke on your expense. I suppose its the King Reol syndrome. Whenver that nick comes up people go on a rant and throw some shit. This is wrong, no doubt. The fact that you put yourselfe in that position dosn't make it less wrong and I'll personally refrain from doing it from now on.

Perhaps the fact that you take compet-n so deadly serious is some of the problem. You seem set to prove yourselfe and make a rep of sorts, and it mix badly with your blunt remarks on your own skill and comments on other players work. Harvesting points is not a wrong agenda in itselfe, there wouldn't be a point system if so I suppose, but you seem to think having your name on a list is the main thing of importance.

You also have a gift for leaving in just the right remarks to piss some people off and leave the rest wondering what all the negative reactions are about. Even in your last post you managed to include one line that apperantly sent Radek on a tantrum. I don't know if this is caused by lack of tact on your part or if its done simply to provoke. Either way the result is the same, and its a negative one. Why not avoid it?

I find skill irrelevant to this thread as I already stated, but it seems to be a resurfaceing issue. I can honestly say I can't enjoy your demo work on the same line as other players because your attitude put me off. When the intention of a run is solely to put your name on a piece of html its an empty effort to me. You say you take compet-n very seriously, but at the same time the body of your demos, with exceptions, have almost no work in it - and that reflects badly on compet-n as a whole. Theres incidents where your demos are improvable by over a minute with strictly casual play. How is that taking compet-n seriously? You upload evilution map 31 speedruns that take use of some cheap s50 to improve a set of excellent records by one of the best speedrunners ever, now replaced by some half hearted runs that dosn't come close as achivements in reality. Do you fail to see how that makes both compet-n and you look bad? Its a lack of respect for the effort put into the run by the former player as well. Again, I'm not sure this is something someone not actively playing himselfe can feel/understand.
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Andy Johnsen
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Re: demo flood

Post by Andy Johnsen »

I'm not saying everything you did for compet-N is crap. Well, I'm sure I said that a few times too on irc, but I'll admitt having problems holding back when I disslike something/someone, thats a problem I gotta work on. The good stuff you brought to cn was increased activity, heavily improved tyson times over some dreadfull tasks I can't imagine anyone else feeling compelled to do (sorry, my intention of fun is not knocking cybers w/o berserk or waiting for a baron pacemaker to stop working in e4m1 =) - but its good that someones around to do these tasks as well. I have mixed feelings when it comes to filling tables just for the intention of removing empty space. I'd say no run is better than a crap run, but perhaps thats just me, and I can't say I always felt that way either, its something I realized after spamming the tables myselfe for too long (altho I never took it to the extent you have done the last year).

I dunno where I'm getting with these rambelings, and I'm not sure I understand the intention of your post fully. But I choose to see it as a step towards a more prefferd situation where we quit the crap talk on both sides and let the demos resolve annoyance. Everyone can't expect to get along with everyone, even in a community this small. I don't expect us to see stuff the same way ever, and that was not my intention either. So basically, expect some heavy competition on the demofront from radek, bahdko and myselfe but know that I'll refrain from throwing more shit on irc (and I hope people see this as a good thing, as opposed to what Pope and emailking made it sound like - it means more runs for the rest of you to enjoy). Behaving like a monkey on this forum was not my intention either, but then again I have a habbit of vacum cleaning whats left of expensive hardware after doom runs gone wrong so I'm occasinally an irrational loudmouth with a short fuse.

I was gonna leave this thread after my little tantrum in the previous post (a tantrum
triggerd by the immense annoyance of seeing people bash us for uploading demos instead of
spending time on flamewars like this one), but I'm gonna apologize to emailking for taking his post as too much of a personal attack, and the resurfacing line in the txt files served an unnecessary provocation, I think I'll leave em blank unless I got anything sensible to say from now on.

This will be my last post on the subject, you have no idea how fed up of this topic I am. We all have our opinions set I belive.
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Re: demo flood

Post by xit-vono »

Anders, feel free to beat any of my demos, that's what c-n is all about.  Let's just keep it clean.  As for ev31, well I will say that Hegyi knew when he did it that the runs would be improvable with strafe50 abuse, and after doing my tn31 runs I gave him more than enough time to improve his speedruns before improving them myself.  In no way did I claim that my demos on ev31 were more skillful then the ones Hegyi did with strafe40 only.  
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Re: demo flood

Post by AdamW »

amen.
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Re: demo flood

Post by Waldon »

Let me quote one of my favorite writers; I believe his sentiments are very appropriate right now.






VOTE BITCHES

Deadline is tonight.
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Fishy
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Re: demo flood

Post by Fishy »

halleluja
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Fishy
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Re: demo flood

Post by Fishy »

Let me quote one of my favorite writers; I believe his sentiments are very appropriate right now.

VOTE BITCHES

Deadline is tonight.
And what was the name of this favorite writer?  ;D
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holy ranx
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Re: board..

Post by holy ranx »

hey [NM]adamW,
thx for sharing your thoughts, I appreciated - myself do "rate" demos by the time
they came out, thus the 97 ty07 is OK in my book, altho if you dont like it thats fine :)
same goes for the *novelty* character of those TAS demos (well the ty15 ie)

btw, seen some regular Skogsto manco punchouts recently, incredible stuff.
Maybe.. one day.. (oh, and since you asked, t4m7 was another vono out of base)

I can't impress you with a pp31 as I'm no Zen master of constraint ;)
but I can imagine that finishing *any* map pacifist style must feel great.
that has to be right up there with winning a distance pissing contest, at the very least
(If you ever won one you know what Im talking about)


anyway the reason Im typing is the 2nd vote round. altho you didnt ask, here are my picks,
feel free to submit yours, folks (unless you prefer to keep that secret)

max: e1m7 - vile gets a mentioning nevertheless as the max-year would have been less fun
w/o his two personalities

speed: why no lv14-020/lv32-011?

nm: tie between nm29 & n1m3

movies: 30nm (sorry, don't like UV)

best player: [no vote yet]

achievement: istvan pataki ;)

best cat: respawn!!

technical/artistic: umn, I mixed this one up again it seems..

that's all I got so far. BTW, for the records, the AV jump + cyber frag in HR27 was created
by Alexander Shuskov, a brillantly smart guy indeed.. feel free to send me some dosh if you
wanna see that trick implemented in a regular max demo btw

halleluja everyone,
claudio AKA "the italian Hegyi" (or "swiss Sedlic" on sundays)

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