What is the most stupid piece of level design ...

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paulgilb
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What is the most stupid piece of level design ...

Post by paulgilb »

...in a PWAD or IWAD? It could be a ridiculous secret (e.g. that secret on MAP25 with nothing in it) or something else (e.g. on one level (I forget which) of 2002uv.wad there is a monster teleporter whose trigger-line is behind a switch, so you would not trigger that if playing normally).
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Andy Johnsen
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Andy Johnsen »

Well, I know this guy who put a revenant on a ledge once..belive it or not.    ::)
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Ryback
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Ryback »

Monster teleporters, without a doubt. Stupid pieces of garbage that never disgorge all their monsters, take forever to run through, and make you do all sorts of shit while you're waiting. LEARN TO FUCKING DESIGN A MONSTER TELEPORTER THAT WORKS, YOU STUPID WAD AUTHORS.
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by AdamW »

I've never liked the nukage pits in E1M3 that you can't get out of. (The one right at the start, and the edges of the outdoor one).
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Vile »

I'd have to agree with monster teleports being the most annoying, along with powerful monsters placed in high cages so you have to sit in one place and fire rockets into it (mm23).  A more rare annoyance would be the imp cage from 2002ado e3m5.  It has over 60 imps teleporting in and you have to wait around for all of them to teleport in for a proper max run.  Even better is the fact that you have to use the berserk fist to save up the shotgun shells for the cage.

We've also been over the cacos teleporting in at the end of 2002 e3m3... 80 cacos, and if you go in with full ammo (which is hard enough to do) it's only possible to kill about 60 of them.  No chainsaw or berserk either, so max isn't possible...  :'(
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Angus_Thermopyle »

There are very annoying doors in Doom, e.g.

- yellow door in e1m4: you can stand there and hit the open key six or more times and nothing happens (of course with the yellow key in your bag
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Vile »

That e1m4 door carries the same tag as an elevator you'll find earlier in the level, an elevator that monsters activate every so often in that area.  I guess whenever a monster triggers the elevator, the door won't work until it rises again.

This would explain why it has never happened to me in a max run.
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by AdamW »

That's exactly it Vile. One of the more annoying things in an EP1 speed run, that...can cost two-three seconds you have *no* control over. Interesting fact...prboom used to "fix" it, which sent E1M4 demos out of sync :).
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by xit-vono »

how about leaving out the key in ev31??? That was a real bonehead move.
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Vile »

Indeed... it's there in an editor, but tagged for coop only... at least ONE playtest of the final level without using idkfa would have solved that problem.
The_Fish
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by The_Fish »

Indeed... it's there in an editor, but tagged for coop only... at least ONE playtest of the final level without using idkfa would have solved that problem.
perhaps they playtested in coop, or perhaps they did not playtest the level(s?) at all? It's more common then you think...
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Heh

Post by AltimaMantoid »

There IS the fix for ev31 ya know! ^_~

Stupid level design...hm....in my opinion, it would have to be....the secrets in ev22. Um...they're pointless? A cage of Demons is a secret. Riiiiight....although, all the secrets makes nm100s fun to play ^_^
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by jbd41 »

The door being tagged to the wrong keycard in RQ19. It does make runs easier, but it still qualifies as a stupid mistake.

Of course, I'm presuming you mean this to be "stupid pieces of level design in relatively good levels". The stupid levels out there are legion, just nobody plays them.

Anyone want to admit to a stupid mistake they made in their own level?  ;D
Angus_Thermopyle
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Angus_Thermopyle »

Limiting the question on IWADs ...

Doom:
only little stupid things as doors, secrets or elevators (e1m2)
Doom II:
some secrets, nothing else
Plutonia:
generally perfect design, the curved passages in Aztec are the only stupid thing coming in my mind

Evilution:
uh oh ...  :-/ ... long list ...
There is an enormous number of stupid, dull or ugly parts in this WAD, in almost every map. For all that, the playability is on a high level for the most part. Examples:

Map 27: the spiderweb passage to the Disaster Area and the Area itself (doing the DA-texture had required the most work and time  ::))
Map 4: TNT knew that the entire design of this level is stupid, so they placed the exit at the start (this is less stupid  ;D)
Map 19: the teleporter at the crates near the end; are there any flawless runs at this point? Except that, this map is full of ugliness.
And so on ...

(Team TNT did it again in Eternal Doom and Icarus, but these Wads are stupid, dull and ugly at all, without any playability.)
Angus_Thermopyle
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Angus_Thermopyle »

Map 25: The BFG secret, empty in UV!
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by AdamW »

jbd: well, you can only get 50% secrets on Requiem MAP29...oops :)
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xit-vono
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by xit-vono »

well I've always considered unreachable kills or secrets to be pretty stupid.  One more thing, on map31 there's a spot where 2 pigs are standing on top of eachother and can't move.
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by Vile »

Stuck monsters appear in the original levels as well:

E1M6:   stuck spectre in the wall at the end room.
MAP02: stuck sarge in the wall outside the room leading to the lower rooms with the blue key.
MAP31: two spectres stuck together early on.

In other weirdness, there's also a bulk cell on map11 placed in the middle of nowhere.  It's tagged for MP only, but it's there... check it out with a map editor.
paulgilb
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Re: What is the most stupid piece of level design

Post by paulgilb »

Also E4M3 has a rocket placed IN the wall.
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