Bosse2m8,3m8

This is where you can get REAL competitive.
DeDo
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Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by DeDo » 23.06.2003 10:40

Do I have to wait until the game ends to get a valid time or may I use the time of death of the last monster? There are 1-4 seconds delays after the last boss is dead until the end of the game. I had two tries where the game ended in that moment the kill was made.

admin
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by admin » 23.06.2003 11:04

The game ends when the intermission text appears. It is the same as in all ExM8 boss maps.

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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by admin » 23.06.2003 15:57

Anyway, since I guess a lot of people don't know how exactly this works, I'm gonna explain it here. What is below I was told by Lee Killough a couple of years ago.

A monster's death looks like this: first, its health drops below zero. Then, the engine initiates the death animation. The animation is fixed length for each monster type, say, it's 130 gametics for the spider mastermind, or 110 gametics for the cyberdemon.

In case of certain monster types (mancubi, barons, arachnos, cybers, masterminds) at the end of their death animation an action is initiated which is called A_BossDeath. In this action, first the engine checks if we're on the "right" map (which is, MAP07 for mancs and arachnos, E1M8 for barons, etc.). Then it checks if there's a player alive who can continue the game. Then the engine checks whether there are any other monsters alive from this monster type. If not, start the associated action (MAP07 mancs: floor lower, arachnos: floor raise, E2M8/E3M8: exit level etc.).

So what happens in a normal case? Say, the last cyberdemon dies. As the health drops to zero it starts its death animation. When the death animation ends, the engine checks if there are any more cybers around. There aren't - so the level ends. How much time has passed since the cyber was killed? 110 gametics - the length of its death animation.

Now, imagine this. There are two cybers alive, both on low health. The first one dies and the death animation starts. Now comes the tricky part. The second one dies before the first cyber's death animation finishes. As the first cyber finally finishes its death animation, A_BossDeath is called, which checks if there are any other cybers alive. No, because the second died in the meanwhile. So the level ends. How much time has passed since the first cyber was killed? 110 gametics. How much time has passed since the second (in reality last) cyber was killed? LESS THAN 110 gametics, because it died later than the first one. So you actually gained time because you didn't have to wait as much after the last cyber's death.

So, to exploit this feature, the last monster has to die before the second-to-last completely crumbles to dust. The later the better, of course monsters with less health (trons and mancs) can be timed more precisely than the big ones.

DeDo
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by DeDo » 23.06.2003 19:02

Well this explains a lot. Good to know. Thanks. :)

AdamW
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by AdamW » 23.06.2003 21:07

adam_h: wow, finally I understand why it's best to kill the last two arachnotrons almost simultaneously on MAP07. Always knew it was true before, didn't know *why*. :)
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Opulent
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Opulent » 02.07.2003 04:52

Qwerty, I got 43.88 with Timer, but I can never read that thing correctly.  (43.77 maybe from LMPC.)
ask Adam H. :-/

btw everyone, if you want to see some cool demos check out the /incoming Iwad dir!
[ftp]ftp://competn.doom2.net:8002/incoming/compet-n/[/ftp]

admin
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by admin » 02.07.2003 11:55

43.88 is correct.

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Op_
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Op_ » 02.07.2003 17:28

Wow, :41, I'm impressed! :)

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Ryback
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Ryback » 03.07.2003 04:58

I knew this already :)

I believe the trick also gets used in the DDQR run, on e1m8, killing the two barons.

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-=QWERTY=-
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by -=QWERTY=- » 03.07.2003 09:18

Opulent, Adam_H

thx a lot  :)

AdamW
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by AdamW » 03.07.2003 13:50

ryback: correct!
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Opulent
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Opulent » 11.07.2003 03:46

Hmm... finally had time to check out Qwerty's route improvement on e2m8.
I'm actually surprised it is faster... but doing damage all the time is clearly a better strategy if ammo holds out.
I'd think using the rockets liberally on the herded Cybers until 2 die is probably the best way to go.  I bet one of you has a 1:40 already.  ... guess I'll have to wait until we reach that July13th finish line.  ;)

Vile
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Vile » 11.07.2003 03:51

Nice :41, Dougie. :)

A bit luck dependant indeed, but it seems like the improvements have reached a limit until the hidden sub :40 times get uploaded by the secretive llamas. ;)

I'm sure there's some faster bo28 runs, but not from me.  I haven't tried since I uploaded that 1:48.

AdamW
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by AdamW » 11.07.2003 13:32

July 13?

fuck!
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Angus_Thermopyle
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Angus_Thermopyle » 11.07.2003 19:23

Needed 1:50 for the cybies. Thank you, Doug, for reminding me of the contest

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Opulent_
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Opulent_ » 11.07.2003 20:39

np, glad to be of service... we've been getting some late submissions for these contests by some DOOM Gods, so I thought I'd remind them.
Thanks to Qwerty, there goes my afternoon plans...  time to limber up the fingers, plug in my new mouse, and set the CD volume to max... this could be a long night!  8)

Angus_Thermopyle
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Angus_Thermopyle » 11.07.2003 21:12

Then I must hope that there will be any points left for me ...

AltimaMantoid
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Hehe

Post by AltimaMantoid » 16.07.2003 04:16

Congrats on a great third leg  8)
"The Man with the Golden BFG"

Opulent
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Re: Bosse2m8,3m8

Post by Opulent » 01.10.2003 02:10

:'(
I was under the impression the contest would be timed to the 100th... just like the second heat.  There goes my only chance I'll ever have to get first in anything...
good to see an update though.  :)