Would any man like to step up?

This is where you can get REAL competitive.
The_Fish
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Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

Here's a little challenge for the 'boys' of compet-n:

Pick 3 maps. Any maps that c-n allows submissions. Once you've chosen three different maps improve the previous time as substantially as possible.

The total improvement time (the number of minutes and seconds improved of all three maps) will be compared against three maps I have chosen and anyone else that decides to compete.

A few rules: Any cat is exceptable. No Movies - single levels only. You cannot improve a map you already or previously owned the record to. Learn 3 new maps.

Deadline is ? I dunno, do we have any takers that think they can take me on?

Anthony

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

I think this strongly favors tyson players.  Can I improve Demonlord's TGM's runs and use those?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

If i do 3 new demos, do I get an unbeatable result, having beaten the infinite time by, well nearly infinite?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

I don't think this would be a very good idea for a contest.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

We could try this.  Perhaps Pwad maps that have empty entries... or maxdemos that haven't been touched since the word 'quake' only referred to the ground shaking. 8)

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

Erm, I thought it would be obvious that you'd have to do a map that had a time already. No infinite improvement math theories will work on me. =)

Also another rule is that all three demos that you beat cannot be from the same person (i.e. You cannot improve three Demonlord demos but you could do two). Also Xit, no TGM because it's a MISC category right now...something c-n keeps tables for.

I don't think it's as lopsided as you think Xit. A big part of this contest involves picking the right maps to improve. If you think you've can easily win with a few Tyson demos then step up... =)

It's not an official c-n contest - just something I'm doing to stimulate a little activity. I've got my demos either way...You can't even imagine what I've done...muahahahhaa  ;D

Simply either your in or out, I'll play with 1 or 10 of you. No prob. I've got it in the bag.  ;)

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Umm....

Post by AltimaMantoid »

I'm sorry, but, uh, I don't have a chance, so I'm gonna set this one out  :-/
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xit-vono
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Can I make a speed demo or a map with a max run only and call that my improvement?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

Can I make a speed demo or a map with a max run only and call that my improvement?
Did you mean a speed demos "for" a map with a max run only? No, it would need to have a time previously before it because it's a basis of comparison as to how much you actually improved the time.

Jee, I thought this contest was pretty straight forward.. :P

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Opulent_
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

I'm with ya Fish...
but how about a little change?  sounds like you have some maps already recorded(or at least picked out).
I say that's unfair. ;D
Sooo, every entrant to this unofficial contest should choose a run(that way we all can participate evenly).  (compet-n category Iwad or pwad map that MUST have a time entry already)
so if 3 people join, there are 3 maps.  20 people, 20 maps. :o
oh, and for some 'Swedish' smacktalk:
anyone who doesn't join, perhaps this will give you the help you need:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dl ... 1512666608

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

There is a problem with that.  Someone may pick a map that only a few people will be able to compete in at all.  I say we should all try to get compet-n points and wait for the next update if we want some kind of contest.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent »

I mean, if there are 5 competitors.  5 maps.  say, I can't do one of the maps.  well, I still get, say, 30 seconds of improvement on the other 4.  so I have 30 points.
Perhaps there are 3 maps that Anders can't do, but he was able to improve the other 2 by 35 seconds -- he beats me.
I think that is still an interesting contest, don't you?  (this is rhetorical -- especially since Xit is probably the busiest Cn player this year)
What do you think Anthony?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

That would have a problem.  Suppose I pick t4m2.  Then if I improve it by 10 minutes nobody else stands a chance unless they can do it too(with a time close to mine).

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent »

then you deserve to win. it is as easy as that.  It's not a perfect contest.  =)
there are some runs that could drop by 10 minutes with a real player... at least on the pwads.
I don't think this is the kind of 'activity' that Fish was trying to generate. :P

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

If that's the way the contest will take place then I will choose not to participate.  I think it would be better to do something that does not give such a huge advantage to tyson players.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by AdamW »

Okay, I retrospectively apply p1m5-151 (improvement from 30:08) and p1m6-232 (improvement from 65:14) and claim the prize. everyone go home now. :)
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by AdamW »

gr...that should read 30:08.
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

I retrospectively claim t4m1 and ty07 and beat Adam Williamson.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

AHAHAHAH Nice tries guys :o

Xit is right that Tyson players have an advantage here, but let me point out that Xit himself has a disadvantage here, he can't take T2M8 and T4M1 which offer the biggest improvement. Of course, they are by far not easy, but I think we can all agree it's easier to take off 10 minutes from a 50 min time, than from, say a 25 min time. HR26 Max is the 3rd longest with 41:05, but apart from these 3, all demos are sub 40 minutes.

With the current tables, I think a 30 min improvement of 3 demos would be quite damn good.

Anyway, there will be an official contest soon enough.
Just wait (and suffer ;D)

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HR26-Max time...

Post by AltimaMantoid »

Actually Adam, I downloaded Kai-Uwe's 33 minute Max-run, so the record was broken quite some time ago from a 41 minute run
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

Nope, it doesn't. Read the text file in hruvlmp2.zip.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

OK OK... >:(

1) No retrospective applying...SHEESH
2) Op - I don't think it's a good idea that we choose maps. First, uhm, if we pick any map then Adam wins by default. I mean, who wins all these freaking contests anyways? With no specific maps it allows a broader range and more general interest. Cause, sorry, I'm not interested in sitting down to do t4m2. heh With no specific maps picked it creates another important aspect to the contest which I think would level the playing field for the non-gods....which is locating which maps/pwads could use the most improvement (hint: Look for old 1997 records =)

Forget Adam's contest...hehe...join mine and we'd have fun and improve some of the oldest and slowest demos! Nothing like saying you improved a map by 10 minutes!

OK, enough talk. I'll set a deadline of March 1st. That day I upload  my demos to incoming and post my total improvement time here. You can do it sooner if you prefer...hope I'll see some demos!

Anthony

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Umm...

Post by AltimaMantoid »

Well, I found that file but I can't download it, I think the server is down or the file is gone.... :-/ :-/
Last edited by AltimaMantoid on 13.02.2002 23:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

I always forget there's ppl who don't have every filename in their head ;D

Oh well:
Quote:
"In level 26 there is a bug with the ghosts - sometimes there aren't any ghosts in the end. This happens randomly and that's why it wasn't discovered before. Kai recorded a 33:09 lmp but unfortunately there were no ghosts in his lmp. Peo recorded a 41:05 lmp with ghosts. We include both lmps. Note that both of them are faster than the old lmp."

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Aahh...

Post by AltimaMantoid »

So that explains it. Technically he didn't kill all enemies  ::) Ghosts...God I hate those things... >.<'
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Ahhh, but since they are ghosts they are already dead, and the rules say you only have to kill each monster at least once.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

Except for ghosts.
The rules are kinda obsolete on this, I know.

Everything except lost souls must be dead before you exit.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Oh, so the official rule now is that you have to kill everything now?  If you use monsters that the arch-vile revives to kill it in a tyson run then do you have to kill them?  What happens if you do a tyson and you're stuck with a single ghost which obviously can't be killed with fist or pistol.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

If there's no way to kill them you can exit.

Until someone finds a way to kill them in which case he takes the record no matter the time.

I don't think this is too complicated?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

What I have to say is I once had a ty27 attempt where there was a ghost pistol guy in the slime, so he didn't interfere with the rest of the level, but there was no way to kill him.  This is an exceptional situation and in a normal run he wouldn't be there, so could I have finished the level there?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by admin »

Well, not really.
I guess there is a way to avoid the ghost from being created, thus finishing ty27 with everything dead behind you.

When I say "there's no way" I mean when ghosts WILL get spawned no matter what you do (mainly because the level is designed that way on purpose, hr26 and rq23 are), then you can leave them alone in tyson.

If there's a way to avoid ghosts to be created, then you have to take the consequences when they are created (tyson: quit, max: kill)

Unreachable monsters are a different issue, thats what the "maximum possible kills" guideline is for.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

Fish: well then how do you expect this to be an even contest... or generate some new demos?  There is no direct competition or motivation.
/me watches incoming for any new Fish demos.  8)

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

oh brother... ::)

Op...the competition is in total improvement time. I give up, I swear. Just trying to put a spin on the demos I upload and maybe coax people into doing a few themselves in the name of competition...shiet.

I'm not aware of all the contests...but I can't remember Adam ever doing a contest in which the times/lmp's could be applied to the normal tables...they are always for something else..

Anthony

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Well, since I'm working on t4m2 I may decide to submit a couple extra demos.  If I had waited to do t4m1 then I would have a clear victory.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

Fish, I guess that is just too close to just everyday Cn recording.  I just wouldn't feel any competition if we weren't trying the same run.

personally, I'd rather see 3 maps chosen completely randomly, then see who can improve them the most aggregately.
Example: t3m5 / re28 / mm25max
that kind of thing.
that way, no one has a distinct advantage, only luck to get a run that falls into your preferred style.
What do you think?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Trouble is we may get a run which is way too hard to beat that way.  Maybe we should do PWAD runs over 2 minutes chosen randomly, so we aren't likely to have that problem and also we'll mostly get speed and max that way.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

sounds good to me, Xit.  esp. since I don't stand a chance improving an Iwad demo. Now who can we trust with the truly random map generation? ;)

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Hmm....

Post by AltimaMantoid »

I could accept that role of who to randomly generate the maps of choosing.....and could I possibly ask for some added stipulations of my choosing? Don't worry, I won't make them that hard to do, just thought I'd maybe spice things up a little

Or I can do it the old fashion way, "Map XX - Max, eXmX-NM100S" blah blah, like that, you guys decide

Stips, or no stips...
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by AdamW »

well, this just becomes a bog-standard contest with those rules, without even the spin adamh used to impose to make it any more interesting...it's just "do these three runs faster than anyone else". it's not exactly excitement unabounded, is it? the first idea was more original, at least.
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Well AdamW

Post by AltimaMantoid »

As I said, I could always put my OWN spin on things, since I wouldn't even stand an ass of a chance at this contest. I thought I'd select the levels and requirements to exit, just to see what would happen and who would win it.....and I have some creative things for the three maps in mind.... ^_^
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

See I've got to agree with AdamW. It's not even a bog contest. It's basically compet-n, except you guys want a few maps chosen randomly. Op, how does your way make it free'er to lesser skilled players? Pick a specific map and if the gods participate they will sweep the floor ... case closed. If you don't specify parameters it would be a much more open contest...

...But I can see this is not working.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

What I was saying just makes it more competitive.
If I manage rf12-305, then my victory is minor compared to winning that map against better players.
I guess my complaint is your contest is just Compet-N, nothing else -- it is like the contest is not even going. People play Compet-n maps and upload them to incoming -- there is no interaction at all.
For Cn-wannabes like me, the competition with the CN players is what is fun... placing 5th out of 8 players is just icing on the cake.
Lastly, choosing maps randomly prevents some players *cough* Xit, Anthony, Mantoid *cough* from having things in mind or even recorded.  :)
It's you contest, do whatever you want. :)

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Oh?

Post by AltimaMantoid »

Well Opulent, I consider myself an honest person, and I wasn't planning on entering the "contest" because, bottom line is, I suck, plus the maps I have in mind I couldn't do like that.

Also, with my twists, it wouldn't be official C-N records, it would be "misc" stuff...as an example (this wouldn't be something I'd choose), who could finish e3m5 without using the BFG. Something like that was what I had in mind Op ^_^
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

At this point I think it's better to wait for Adam's next contest.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent_ »

You guys are such pessimists! (even you Anthony)
This is supposed to be a fun activity (not that Adam's Tricks and Speed map won't be ;D), let's do SOMETHING.
Fish, at least name the maps you wanted to do...
Heck, Altima could name a pwad map, and we each could choose a seperate cat. (or one that we like, even if another player is doing it too). (just an idea)
Sheesh, the subject line is "Would any man like to step up?" not "Let's not do anything because we can't agree on anything."
alright.. my lips are  :-X.

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Pwad, or not to pwad...

Post by AltimaMantoid »

Well, I already have one of the maps selected and it wasn't a PWAD, but if you guys like, the other two can be PWADs ^_^

Also with my added stips to beating the level, it might make them a little more fun! Just offering my help in here guys, doing what I can :D
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

Pessimistic? And you wonder why? Because you people pick apart my contest until it's no longer my contest. At least with Adam's contests everybody stands behind it

I *never* picked any maps, that was an original stipulation.
Maybe someday you'll see the maps I recorded; I think I'll just hold onto them instead.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by DashEvil »

Fish: It's okay, I back you 100% percent. The rest of them are fools.

:p

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My position...

Post by AltimaMantoid »

I back Fish and Dash, but I know they'd blow the socks offa me in a heartbeat in Dooming  ::)
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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by DashEvil »

I say that I just get off my lazy ass and put Mirra back in business.

Anyone agree?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by Opulent »

Opulent raises his hand. :-*

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by DashEvil »

Allright, sounds like a plan.

I wanna focus more on pwads though, because, well, I believe we generated a nice set of lmps for Fava Beans, and it'd be cool if we could fit other episode replacements in there that don't have level sets, you know? :)

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by DashEvil »

Demo sets.

Sorry, the demon llama has stolen what little brain I have left and is using it to bowl with, so I might seem just a TAD off.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

so far I have done t4m2, t2m5 and t2m6.

     t4m2, t2m5, t2m6
old   21:24 7:10 6:29
new  13:45 7:03 6:22
diff   7:39  0:07 0:07
total: 7:53.

This is certainly not the best I can do but I didn't intend to try hard to win this contest, so good luck to you.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by DashEvil »

Xit Vono, what's with all the 7's, eh? I smell conspiracy, this IS a conspiracy, isn't it?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Maybe I'm James Bond:  Look at those improvement times.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by DashEvil »

haha, it's true, it's true.

A real live bond is here. w00. :P

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

Well, Fish? is this thing over?  What were the 3 maps?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

[quote]
Well, Fish? is this thing over?

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

so I guess that means I win, unless you can point out better improvements than you listed.  I told you tyson players had an advantage here.

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by The_Fish »

Well uhm, yeah I guess you do win a two person contest...unless uhm you want to wait for another max I will upload soon that is at least a 4 minute improvement...then I'd beat your 7 or so minutes of improvement..

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Re: Would any man like to step up?

Post by xit-vono »

You could do that if you wanted to.  I don't know if I'd try to take it back again.  The remaining doom2 tyson levels don't interest me.