## Post COMPET-N questions HERE

COMPET-N chit chat

### Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Why are there multiple "All"s here?

They're also on the "old" website.
Last edited by Archy on 06.06.2012 09:23, edited 1 time in total.

Archy
beliver

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions here.

I'm going to guess that the way the old Compet-N points system worked, the fastest movie got something like 15 points, second fastest got 10 points, third fastest 5 points. So the duplicates are actually second and third place.

Ryback
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions here.

Thanks Ryback, makes sense.

Archy
beliver

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Why on earth do Speed and Max entries have the same naming convention? This is seriously annoying when researching old demo (when Speed demos where about as fast as modern Max demos) and when you have a whole bunch of random demos in one folder and need to sort them out. I know someone's going to say "well the times would be so different that you could easily tell them apart anyway," but...um...

I think it's because back in 1994, no one had any idea that COMPET-N would become so serous, so all they cared for was the time and since so little players played, there would be very little to keep track of. All the categories other than NM Speed, Speed, and Max, were created after COMPET-N became serous competition, and so a different naming conventions were used for those entries. It was too late to change the naming convention of Speed/Max so people just put up with it, saying things like "well the times would be so different that you could easily tell them apart anyway." But why did NM Speed have it's own, unique, naming convention? Because it's Nightmare! and people want their Nightmare! demos to pop out amongst the others.

Now, that is all theory and very well might not be true, but I think we should have a change.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Naming convention will not change, it would change too much stuff, and also database would not work at all since I cannot change/program current database system. I mean, maybe I could but that would take too much my precious time, and I want to make MySQL database so I'll be able to do whatever I want. But even with new database I think I won't change naming convention. I promised that I'll keep COMPET-N the way it was. We might change minor glitches/problems but this is too big I think.

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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Location: Pojatno, Croatia

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

What are NET-X demos and why are there so few of them?

Also, no matter how many times I read over the rules, I still don't understand what MMH is, this is it's official COMPET-N defination, given to us by Steffen "Rini" Udluft:

COMPET-N (Steffen "Rini" Udluft) wrote:Finishing the level in Ultra Violence, in the highest MMH possible. The Maximum Minimum Health is calculated this way: "Watch the health everytime the player takes damage, and take the smallest value of the whole recording. If the player takes no damage at all, the health at the exit counts."

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

NET-X
http://doom.com.hr/?page=compet-n_faq

I forgot to add this to my to-do list. Since mmh, net-x and misc do not have any points I plan to move them all under misc. So we will have only two categories without points, misc and built. I don't see a point to keep them as they are now. But still maybe someone tells me that's a bad idea.

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

I still don't understand what NET-X or MMH are.

Archy
beliver

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

afaik net-x is a mic coop demo, mmh is something weird if imp took 20% health, and deamon took 30% then your mmh is 70%. Watch this http://doom.com.hr/public/doom2/demos/c ... 5-nm30.zip or this http://doom.com.hr/public/doom2/demos/c ... 8-nm13.zip since he's lowest health was 155%, and damage was done by revenant I suppose that's it. So, who exits the level with highest health is the "winner". Oh, now I figured out why are they in speed/nightmare, because they were once speed records. I think this category should be abandoned

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

S. Widlake wrote:"Maximum Minimum Health" - Complete each DooM and/or DooM II Level "safely" ie. as Far From 0% Health (Death) as possible ! :-)

Okay, makes more since but still weird as hell. Also, I wouldn't place NET-X in the misc, now that I know what it is, I think they should remain in their own folder :)

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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Location: Milky Way

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

S. Widlake wrote:"Maximum Minimum Health" - Complete each DooM and/or DooM II Level "safely" ie. as Far From 0% Health (Death) as possible ! )

Does this mean if I have a five hour demo, but I exit with 200% health, I have an unbeatable record? That's stupid.

I kinda like the idea of this though, exit with as much health as possible, but exit under the par time. That would be interesting but what would be even more interesting is have a misc category where you must play on NM and exit with the highest % of kills you can achieve, but you must exit under par.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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Location: Milky Way

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Hm, well, please do not double post, I think EDIT is available, if not pls report it. Well, I didn't say I'll do it until there is a good reason, just that I'm thinking of moving it. Too many things to do
I was doing this days categories for MySQL database and at the end I was really surprised when I found out how many categories there is to sort all things out.

Well, there were many ideas for categories, but the problem is we still have many missing demos (nobody did them) that should be made or at least pushed to lower time, so inventing new category is not an option, at least not yet. Anyway, going to finish TNT demos today, did you made any progress with PL?

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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Location: Pojatno, Croatia

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

I have not made any progress with PL because I am not sure what I am supposed to do with all those PL demos. I would gladly help out with PL though, I'd work hard to get it done properly and in a timely manner. Just tell me what I'm supposed to do with all those PL demos and I'll help out.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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Location: Milky Way

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Have you recieved my email with explanation what to do?

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Got it, sorry, I rarely check my email. And no, no faster form of contact at the time. [PM me next time!]
Also, I noticed that in the log file:
Altima Mantoid = casey
Xit Vono = vono
Ryback = chris
Vincent Catalaa = vincent
stx-Vile = drew

So should I make Ryback=chris or Ryback=Ryback? Should Altima Mantoid still = casey? I also noticed that everyone's name in the log file was just one name, so if some one's nick name is Kimo Xvirus, do I make it Kimo, Xvirus, Kimo Xvirus, or Kimo_Xvirus?

If you want, here's all the Plutoina players:
Code: Select all
? (not kdding, that's what somone put)Adam WilliamsonAltima MantoidAqfaqArchyChris "Ryback" RatcliffEugene KapustinJCKimo XvirusLooperNever_AgainRed XIIIRevvedSAV88Tamas FlamichTatsurd-cacocacoVincent CatalaaWim VanrieXit Vonocack_handedethhstx-Viletermrorkvdggxepopz0diac

I would appreciate it if you would reply with something like this:
Code: Select all
? = ?Adam Williamson = adamwAltima Mantoid = caseyAqfaq = aqfaqArchy = archyChris "Ryback" Ratcliff = chrisEugene Kapustin = ekapustin JC = JCKimo Xvirus = kimoLooper = looperNever_Again = neverRed XIII = redRevved = revvedSAV88 = sav88Tamas Flamich = tflamichTatsurd-cacocaco = tatsurdVincent Catalaa = vincentWim Vanrie = wimXit Vono = vonocack_handed = cackethh = ethhstx-Vile = drewtermrork = termrork vdgg = vdggxepop = xeppopz0diac = z0diac

Once I know what to call people in the log file, I'll start.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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Location: Milky Way

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Ohhh, I forgot to attach players file, Adam was using for some players nickname, for some name, and so on, you must use the name he put in players file. Sending it to you now... sry
If there is new player then you can add to players file his name, nick, email the same way others are in that file and send it back to me when you're done.

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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Location: Pojatno, Croatia

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Alright, got it, but just to let you know, I will only be adding demos to the log file. I will not be checking each demo in LMPC for cheats, but it is only a very slim chance that any cheats will have gotten though, as the Doomworld moderators instantly caught cheaters and every demo was checked with LMPC, but only for SR50 mouse drivers and a an illegal tic such as a tic that breaks this code
Code: Select all
The player cannot have GF>50 and GB>50 tic.The player cannot have SL>50 or SR>50 tic.The player cannot have SL>40 or SR>40 tic if turning (TL>0 or TR>0).
So more sneaky cheats could still get though, but the batch of players in the Plutonia incoming seem pretty trustworthy.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

That's OK, we'll check them later.

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

MMH is waaaaay more interesting than "highest health at exit". Honestly it's horribly named; it stands for "Maximum Minimum Health", which is supposed to indicate that you want your "minimum health" to be as high as possible. I could try to elaborate on that explanation but honestly it's a dumb name for an actually very interesting idea.

The way you do it is this: If the player *never takes damage*, then his score is his health at exit. Otherwise, it is the minimum value over the whole recording after the first time he takes damage that his health reaches. Examples:

1) I do not take damage, and acquire 13 health bonuses (exiting with 113% health) -- score = 113.
2) I do not take damage and pick up a soul sphere or megasphere -- score = 200.
3) I take damage once, going to 85 health -- score = 85, even if my health later reaches a higher number.
4) I pick up some health bonuses, going to 120 health. I then take damage, going to 105 health. I take no further damage (or, if I do, I've picked up enough bonuses that I don't ever drop below 105 again) -- score = 105.

Get it? Time is used as a tiebreaker (if A's minimum health is 115 with a time of 3:00, and B's minimum health is 114 with a time of 0:10, A wins).

It's a pretty interesting category; it completely changes the way you play the game. I'm a bit distraught that the most-honored demo site eliminated MMH on its revival, but I won't beat the same horse I did over on doomworld

EDIT: Didn't realize this thread was 4 months old... sorry!
rrwoods
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Well, first thank you for posting and I understand your concern about MMH demos. It's not a problem if you like MMH and if you do and record demos you can still upload them, but I will not add them to database or write about them in news. I'm time limited and without serious help I need to cut something. Today I just found out that categories are mixed up in new database and I spent 2 hours fixing just that. Conversion went wrong I guess Anyway I see many things that needs to be fixed and done. The problem lies in people expecting another Hegyi and that will NEVER ever happen. I think he lived for Doom and realized nobody cares too much. Thats why I want to stay real. I accept critics and suggestions and I'll be glad to add MMH one day as official category but only if I'll have someone who I can trust and rely on to help me with running COMPET-N. Until then you must accept what I offer now

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

I understand completely! As far as the "big picture" is concerned I'm ecstatic to see COMPET-N running again, and I certainly realize what a daunting task it is.

Because of my infatuation with MMH, at some point in the future I might be willing to assist in whatever capacity if it would mean that it would be added back in. Unfortunately right now life is very much in-the-way of things, but hopefully things will take a turn for the better and I'll have more time for fun things like speedrunning
rrwoods
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Looking forward for demos from you!

Real life should be more important for all of us. Thats why I take this slow becouse when you are happy with rl then speedruning just adds more happines

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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Location: Pojatno, Croatia

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

What goes under "Misc" at this point?

EDIT: Also, is the CNDoom Chocolate Doom fork allowed for C-N entries yet? I've got Steam's DOSBox thing running but it's annoying compared to Chocolate.
rrwoods
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Is there any particular reason that the -fast movies are not listed on the database? Also, weren't we going to start including -respawn movies?
"The Man with the Golden BFG"
AltimaMantoid
player

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

@rrwoods
Don't know how I forgot to answer you but no cndoom demos are not allowed for COMPET-N. We might accept pure Chocolate Doom demos when client/server will be available for it. But that's just a thought.
@Altima
They are listed but you have to click first "Show all records" below when listing movies. By default only current records are listed.
Well, yes we will, I just forgot to announce it. I'm really busy, doing some re-coding but I'll get to it when I'll update COMPET-N. That will be for a week I guess.

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

It shouldn't need to be "all records" if it's the current record for a supported category. I guess that's what I'm pointing out. To the casual observer that makes it look like the -fast Episode category doesn't exist.
"The Man with the Golden BFG"
AltimaMantoid
player

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

I agree with Altima. When there's not a mention about UV -fast Episode even in the COMPET-N rules, I thought for certain that the category had been closed.
Jartapran, a humble contributor from The Doom Wiki

Jartapran
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

They're not mentioned in the rules because the rules section only deals with categories that offer points (weird I know, and I think it should be updated since this), but as you can see, all movie categories are listed in the naming convention in both C-N under Hegyi and C-N under FX; but yes, the fact that they do not show up in the database without having to click "all records" is very odd and should be altered. It's only going to cause confusion.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

They will be shown that's for sure, but I'm working/coding some other things atm. and really don't want to "switch" my brain to fast/respawn/tyson so please be patient. I have it in my to-do list but it's not a priority. Until then you are free to record respawn/fast/tyson episode or complete movies since they will be in database.

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

I understand, don't feel rushed.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

No worries, but if you want to make me really happy, record and upload demos

ps. I've added fast and respawn to database, report any bugs if you find any.

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

fx wrote:ps. I've added fast and respawn to database, report any bugs if you find any.

You've added respawn movies to the database? I don't see them.

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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Location: Milky Way

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Not actual movies, just made some database changes so if we add respawn movies they will show up as actual records, but I see one bug anyway (fast episode movies not showing as actual records).

ps. fixed, fast is showing now

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Doom II: UV Tyson episode MAP01-MAP10

Am I downright wrong, or is the above demo by Looper the sole UV Tyson movie there is at the moment ? The rest of the Tyson material seemed to be recorded on lower skill levels, but I may have missed some. How about making it visible along with -fast and -respawn movies ? I mean, it is a base time after all.
Jartapran, a humble contributor from The Doom Wiki

Jartapran
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Yes, the problem is with demos with lower skill level so I'll have to think how to pull only UV skill from database. Such things really complicate database output and require additional code so give me some time to figure it out
In the end all movies will be shown even pacifist if anyone ever make one.

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Archy
beliver

Posts: 132
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Just click on upload demo, but you noticed a glitch that is fixed now. Thank you!

fx
nightmare

Posts: 546
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Location: Pojatno, Croatia

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

This page says: "UV-MAX: finishing the level as fast as possible, in Ultra Violence, killing every monster at least once including monsters resurrected by an arch-vile, except lost souls, and with 100% secrets. If there are monsters that you cannot kill at all or you can kill them only with heavy rocket splash damage, then you can skip them. (Plutonia MAP27, HR MAP32,...)"

Shouldn't it be "UV-MAX: finishing the level as fast as possible, in Ultra Violence, exiting with all monsters dead including monsters resurrected by an arch-vile, except lost souls, and with 100% secrets. If there are monsters that you cannot kill at all or you can kill them only with heavy rocket splash damage, then you can skip them. (Plutonia MAP27, HR MAP32,...)"

"Killing every monster at least once" seems to contradict "including monsters resurrected by an arch-vile" and could be interpreted as "YOU have to kill each monster at least once, deaths caused by infighting does not count" -- hence why I prefer "exiting with all monsters dead."

And another question, are UV-RESPAWN entries now acceptable for E4M8? The same pages states that "E2M8, E3M8 don't have RESPAWN entries because they don't differ from MAX" and doesn't mention E4M8 unlike Hegyi's set of rules.

Archy
beliver

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Can I use Mouselook when recording demos in PrBoom+ or Glboom+?
DruidVorse
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

DruidVorse wrote:Can I use Mouselook when recording demos in PrBoom+ or Glboom+?

Do you mean vertical mouselook, as in aim up and down? If so then no, not afaik, nobody records demos using mouselook unless it's (G)ZDoom specific WADs like for example Pirate Doom.
In this case I would recommend you to just get used to the controls without the use of any vertical mouselook.

If you mean using your mouse to turn in the horizontal direction instead of using keyboard to turn left\right, then that works with every sourceport.

Either way, COMPET-N is for vanilla demos (like using dosbox) and CNDOOM is for demos recorded using the competition doom sourceport, prboom+ and other sourceport demos can be submitted to The DooMed Speed Demos Archive (DSDA).
ZeroMaster010
noob

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Joined: 28.10.2014 15:30

### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Thanks for solving my question.

And where can I get the original exes?
DruidVorse
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Is there any particular reason why the item collection percentage doesn't matter in any category, even for Max?

Yishai
noob

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Collecting all items on some maps would take lot of time and it would not be interesting in the end. Just look how many play there are tyson players. I mean watching 1h long tyson demo is... to be honest boring. I admire people making such demos but I really hate to watch such demos.

fx
nightmare

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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

fx wrote:Collecting all items on some maps would take lot of time and it would not be interesting in the end. Just look how many play there are tyson players. I mean watching 1h long tyson demo is... to be honest boring. I admire people making such demos but I really hate to watch such demos.

What if two different runs have EXACTLY the same stats, except one has a +1% item collection advantage? Is item collection used as a tie breaker, or is it completely ignored?

Yishai
noob

Posts: 11
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### Re: Post COMPET-N questions HERE

Items are ignored. Who first uploads is the record holder, no matter when he did it. Upload date is important so that's why I database keeps track of when someone uploaded record. And you can check incoming if someone already uploaded same. But these days I doubt there are two people who would upload at the same time same record

fx
nightmare

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