New COMPET-N PWAD

COMPET-N chit chat

New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby fx » 12.10.2012 13:10

Yes yes, everything is fine with your eyes. :P

Since all PWAD's will be soon in database I would like to hear your suggestions for next COMPET-N PWAD! Yay!

Before throwing suggestions here:
1. I'd like you to tell us why do you think that WAD would fit into COMPET-N, and if WAD has some problematic levels (unreachable kills or secrets, etc.,) please write it all down.
2. you can suggest two (2) PWAD's only
3. optional: post direct link to PWAD, map fixes and any demos if they exist
4. optional: misc comments

If you're WAD is already suggested you can vote for it by clicking Thanks button.

Yeah that's it, so, what are you waiting for, hurry and suggest your favorite WAD!
Oh, one more thing... deadline is 31.10.2012!
User avatar
fx
nightmare
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 29.11.2004 17:41
Location: Pojatno, Croatia

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby vdgg » 17.10.2012 12:14

My first thought is "No more PWADs". Why?

It is a bit too late for that, in e.g. 2006, while PrBoom existed, almost all the demos for vanilla WADs were recorded using the original executables. Now it's the opposite. Say we add many people's favourite, Scythe, you'll see the majority of the DSDA records done using ports. Same for HR2,Ksutra,2002ADO,Icarus. So what we should compete against? Port records, vanilla records?

Slayer is a classic WAD with a relatively low Port-to-Vanilla ratio, and it has few demos outside of the UV Max category. It also has not too many maps, so it is my only pick. http://doomedsda.us/wad807.html

(+) Only 11 maps
(+) Few non-vanilla records
(+) Few records other than UV Max
(+) Excellent gameplay

(-) MAP02 has been reported to be unreliable for categories requiring 100% kills.
vdgg
champ
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 04.06.2012 20:25

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby fx » 17.10.2012 12:33

Yes, it is late but some people still wants new PWAD if I'm correct, and now I can offer them one. My opinion is that even current PWAD's are not played enough but real problem lies in Vanilla requirements. Real solution on this would be new client, Competition Doom that we are working on. If there will be no more interest on this topic, I'll leave it as is.
User avatar
fx
nightmare
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 29.11.2004 17:41
Location: Pojatno, Croatia

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby vdgg » 17.10.2012 12:40

Many active players don't look at the "Doomworld News" section frequently, so maybe you could advertise it again in the "Speed Demos" section?
vdgg
champ
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 04.06.2012 20:25

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby rrwoods » 18.10.2012 05:03

I honestly wouldn't see a problem adding e.g. Scythe and only using vanilla/cndoom records. It doesn't really "invalidate" the demos recorded on Boom varieties, and besides if you throw it on COMPET-N I bet a lot of those records get blown away anyway :P
rrwoods
noob
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 13.10.2012 14:10

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby AltimaMantoid » 22.10.2012 12:58

Scythe is a fantastic candidate for addition to the Compet-N. The reason I say this is because it's one of the last wad files I remember having a huge vanilla following for a while, and the maps are all great for competitive running. All of them, save 30, are typically small maps with shortcuts and tricks to make them faster. The only problem with that is, much easier optimization efforts are needed. Not to mention we'd need some sort of ruling on Map28 I believe it was, as to what would constitute as a UV-Max to separate that from the UV-Speed category, given the nature of the map.

Another great candidate would be Hell Revealed 2 as I remember it is completely vanilla compatible, and there were tons of work done for it on the original executable. Keep in mind, I do not know port-to-vanilla ratios on this or Scythe as mentioned above, but these are simply my suggestions.
"The Man with the Golden BFG"
AltimaMantoid
player
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 08.11.2001 21:45

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby fx » 23.10.2012 18:52

I was already thinking about HR2 and made it available in database editor but wanted to hear from you folks. My opinion is that hard wads are not very well played, I mean it's hard to play nm, nm100s, pacifist, fast, tyson, respawn on such wads so there are almost no demos or just a few. Nobody doesn't want to bother with hard maps.
Anyway, seems like Schyte is the way to go?! I still have to check it trought, since I NEVER played it :(
User avatar
fx
nightmare
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 29.11.2004 17:41
Location: Pojatno, Croatia

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby AltimaMantoid » 24.10.2012 11:48

I would also love to throw TVR! out as a candidate. Personally, I consider that and Scythe as the two most playable WAD files out there on all difficulties.

Now that I think about it, I believe Doom the Way id Did would be another fantastic choice, given it is meant to follow the mapping rules that the original Ultimate Doom did, meaning it's most likely very playable on all difficulties.
"The Man with the Golden BFG"
AltimaMantoid
player
 
Posts: 225
Joined: 08.11.2001 21:45

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby Kyle » 15.07.2013 08:13

Well hopefully something eventually comes of this topic, no need to rush obviously. One problematic aspect is that different speedrunners have their own idea of what makes a map interesting/worthwhile to record on. Take slayer for example, the maps seem very linear with high monster density and moderate difficulty (very characteristic of Richard Wiles maps). It looks to me like UV-Speed would basically be Max route while trying to minimize killing and secret detours for the majority of maps. I think a megawad chosen for Compet-N should seek more variety in the maps. While naturally, we shouldn't assume too much in choosing the maps (a few "impossible" pacifist or nightmare situations could lead to nice surprises down the line), there is considerable value in finding a mapset with a good variety of gameplay situations and route possibilities. If we were to choose an already popular megawad, it might be useful for players to discuss potential problems with the wads or changes that could be made, and then work as a group to release a Compet-N edition (I believe the authors should be contacted about this even if the textfile says its ok). Just throwing that idea out there.

Scythe honestly would fit CN well, better than several wads already in CN imo. To circumvent the problem brought on by prboom demos, perhaps there could be a 6 month period where only improvements were considered, unless it was by the same author of the original run. For example, I would have 6 months to try to equal my prboom 0:26 Scythe map 1 max record, and if I failed to get my own time again within the 6 months, Radek's vanilla 0:27 demo would be taken as the record and anyone can do 0:26 for a CN point. The only thing I don't like is having the huge slaughter of map 30 be at the end, as it significantly lowers the likelihood of seeing an optimized 30 max movie. Since most of the prboom players with records in Scythe are still contactable (Angus and Psichotik the only ones I'm unsure of), it would probably be helpful to get their opinions on this as well.

I haven't played TVR much, but I've seen it suggested by several experienced players, so I think it is worth considering. My only gripe with it is that there appear to be only short maxes. Very few current maxes exceed 3 minutes, and none exceed 4. I think it would be more interesting to have closer to a a Doom 2 level of variance in map length, perhaps with a few longer maps.

As for Hell Revealed 2, I don't think it is very viable for categories besides max. Yes, there are some maps which are, but the vast majority of the maps are unsuitable for UV-Speed (big problem), and absurdly hard for nightmare/pacifist/tyson (not as much of a problem, but still should try to be avoided).

Or we could try to find a less demoed megawad. Altima mentioned Doom the Way Id did, whose prboom demos are all improvable. There is also Doom the Way Id did II coming out, which might be a better candidate (DTWID mostly has demos done by only two people, so perhaps it is too specialized).

One final idea I've entertained is that we (meaning those interested basically) design a megawad specifically for Compet-N. I don't think it would be too difficult to garner interest for such an undertaking, and this would insure that gameplay is reasonable for multiple category recording, that there is variance in difficulty, length, and gameplay from map-to-map, and that there aren't any "too easily optimized" situations such as Scythe map 7 where equaling the pacifist/speed/nightmare record is trivial. Naturally, this would be the most involved option. There would have to be lots of playtesting, mappers willing to make big changes for the good of the wad as a whole, etc.

In general, although the choice of wad should not be made lightly, I think that most choices would see reasonable amounts of competition and activity, but I also think it would be best if no new pwad was added until CNDoom is updated to the extent that it is allowed for Compet-N. The combination of the two could effectively cause a much-needed surge in CN submissions.

Just some random thoughts, would be cool to see more discussion on this.
Kyle
noob
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 09.07.2012 08:47
Location: VA, USA

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby fx » 17.07.2013 22:07

I was thinking about new megawad specially built for CN, but mappers would eliminate possible tricks/routes and all the fun in that :) I also have one silly idea, combine only particular but already existing maps into CN megawad. That could be intetesting.
CNdoom port is far from finished since I cant find anybody to fix few bugs and to finish fraggles client/server code. Maybe its just matter of time to allow chocolate doom for COMPET-M...
User avatar
fx
nightmare
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 29.11.2004 17:41
Location: Pojatno, Croatia

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby kunkun » 18.07.2013 10:42

fx wrote:I was thinking about new megawad specially built for CN, but mappers would eliminate possible tricks/routes and all the fun in that :) I also have one silly idea, combine only particular but already existing maps into CN megawad. That could be intetesting.
CNdoom port is far from finished since I cant find anybody to fix few bugs and to finish fraggles client/server code. Maybe its just matter of time to allow chocolate doom for COMPET-M...


What bugs does CNdoom still have? If it's just multiplayer stuff you could release a single player version which I guess would just be chocolate with better level timers, heh. Then someone could do a simple launcher program for selecting wads/starting level/skill/demo name/complevel to remove the need to mess around with command line and things would be lovely :p
kunkun
noob
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 09.05.2013 12:48

Re: New COMPET-N PWAD

Postby fx » 18.07.2013 12:27

In v2 Quickstart is bugged - no progress bar and controls are not captured, then fast exit while recording is not working too. v1.7 is bug free.
Wad selection would be awesome, and it could be taken from prboom+ but to do it I have to hire developer but cant afford it right now, still jobless :(
User avatar
fx
nightmare
 
Posts: 406
Joined: 29.11.2004 17:41
Location: Pojatno, Croatia


Return to COMPET-N discussion



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests